Return to Halloweentown (2006)

[00:00:03] This is a Bramble Jam Podcast.

[00:00:45] It is a return to DCOM today. Oh boy, Bram. Return to Halloweentown, which believe it or not, is the fourth. Return to Halloweentown seems like the sequel. Yeah, Batman Returns, Return of the King is the third actually. I've never heard of a fourth being a return. So here we are, now we're talking Return to Halloweentown today. Dan, how are we doing with reviews? Is it good news? Is it bad news? As good as we were last week at this time, Bram, which means no new reviews. No!

[00:01:15] Stuck at 170. No! The math is not mathing for you guys. So, you know, it is what it is. But I don't appreciate the negativity here. We need words of encouragement. We need words of encouragement. Yeah. Shows take off, Dan. Shows take off. And what's stopping us from having a big surge? Big surge. A blitz, if you will. A blitz, if you will. And I will. I will indeed. All right. Return to Halloweentown. It's the fourth.

[00:01:45] It's the final Halloweentown movie. Our 66th movie review. And it is. And it is the one without the original. Kimmy J. OG Marnie. Kimmy J. She's not in it. So we'll see how that affects things. Okay. I only think missing is some sort of delish. I can't. D and D comes. I delish. I can't possibly move on without some sort of delish. Mm-hmm.

[00:02:13] And we're not skipping it this week. What do we have here? Erin, what do we have? Yeah. So I, there were, you know, we had a cafeteria scene. So a lot of food options. Yes. Um, I wasn't personally thrilled. You know, one looked like it was like deviled egg eyeballs. I don't know. There were just some things I was like, yeah, not doing creative lunch options that I just wasn't going for.

[00:02:36] Um, and so I figured I would, uh, pay tribute to the way the mom is always trying to get in touch with her kids via various forms of water around houses. So I figured I would make a cocktail. Um, and this cocktail is called the witch's brew. Okay. Okay. Um, it's basically ginger ale vodka, um, and some pureed kiwi fruit with a splash of mint.

[00:03:05] All right, here we go. Witch's brew. Cheers. Everybody without the vodka, it's basically a frismany. Is this a no vodka situation? Nope. It's a full vodka. It's a full vodka situation. That's not bad. It's not bad. Yeah. I put in less mint than the recipe said, and I would almost put in a tad less. Yeah. But it's as per usual. I want there to be carbonation in a clear liquor beverage. I don't know what that is.

[00:03:34] Like, I've just feel like if it was carbonated, it was better, but I like the flavor profile and I don't think it's too much mint. I like the mint. I think I would go stronger on the mint. I think with more carbonation, it would balance out the mint. It's like a mojito, but there's definite carbonated soda water with it. It's like the best mojito. Fantastic. A mojito, if you will. With a little bit of passion fruit in it, but a lot of mint and really strong carbonation. So why do you think it's called a witch's brew?

[00:04:02] I mean, it looks kind of like it's got a bunch of different things in it. Yeah. The problem is, is I do enjoy the taste. I, there's something about the smell that actively hurts my nose, but I thought you were going to say it was the texture because you don't like pulp. Like, no, I think the taste, it's a, the flavor is great. But when I put, cause my nose goes in, you know, into the cup, that's how that works. And I get a lot of it. I'll serve you. I'll serve you. Next time I'll, I'll give you a straw. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. We don't have any around here. We don't have any straws.

[00:04:31] We're fresh out of straws. Notoriously out of straws. Let's do this. Let's take a break. Let's. Let's come back. Let's do return to Halloween town. Love it. Last time we're heading there guys. This is the last time. Debbie Reynolds didn't do any more after this. No more. What about the wiggles? Decom descendants. Good job, Dan. Thank you. Somebody's got to keep us on track, you know? Welcome. Welcome back everybody. It is a decom descendants today.

[00:05:01] Return to Halloween town. Um, quick, uh, programming notes. Ooh, we will be off next week. Memorial day week. Take, take the week off the week. Um, and then we'll be back in June with a jump in and we'll be jumping into a, uh, quite the next batch of movies. Yeah. We're heading into, we're heading into, we're heading into, we will. We'll throw it on choreo. Um, so, uh, yeah, the, come back in June and it's going to be a lot of fun. Great batch of movies coming up.

[00:05:30] We're heading into another golden era. I always hear this. It's another, like they're different. There's different golden. They're different. They're different gold, different shades of gold. Um, all right. Return to Halloween town, the fourth and final time, uh, October 20th, 2006. So, uh, right there, right before Halloween. The magic getting the Halloween. I want to know now that you know how to find this information, not that you didn't before,

[00:05:55] but now that we, now that I've heard one stat on viewers for a decom, I want to know how many live action viewers for this movie, 7.5 million viewers. You think so? Or did you look it up? It's right there. So that's huge. That's a bit like 8.3 is the best ever at this point. So this movie did went bonkers for, for Disney. It did really well. Well, high school musical was like 7.7. Something like that. And Cheetah Girls 2 was 8.3. Yeah. So we're in it. We're in it. You're in it right now. This is it. This is the peak of, this is peak decom. Yeah.

[00:06:24] Peak decom. It is written by four people, Mack, Incho, Annie DeYoung, Juliet and Keith Giglio. Louie's out. Louie's out. He heard how small the world was and he was like, I can't. And it's directed by Percy Jackson. Kidding. It's David Jackson. It is starring Percy's brother. Yes.

[00:06:46] Starring Joey Zimmerman, Judith Hoag, Lucas Grabiel and Debbie Reynolds is in it. And they got Lucas Grabiel. That's unbelievable. And of course we have Kimberly J Sarah Paxton, Sarah Paxton, who Sarah Paxton is wonderful. She's wonderful. Sure. She's not Kimberly J Brown. She's not my Marnie. I'll say that. Hashtag not my Marnie. It's conflicting emotions. It is. Okay.

[00:07:14] So this movie picks up apparently a year after the last one. And then we all remember the last movie portal, whole thing. Yeah. We're, we're, we're full. We're full portal. Portal was second movie. But then they tried to try to shut it down. That's right. Right. Well, they were trying to shut the portal down forever. Yes. Um, yeah, I'm a bit hazy cause we do open the portal at the end of the second one. Yes.

[00:07:45] Because Halloween town high happens. Yeah. But then they, the third one is about, there's a group of people that want to separate. Because they're trying to try to close it back. Yes. They bring in the successful. So it has been open since the, it has been open. And we also can prove that people from Halloween town can live in the mortal realm. Yes, they can. Got it. Um, okay. So Marnie, uh, she looks a little bit different. I don't know. Maybe she's got a haircut and, uh, she's at home.

[00:08:12] She's using her magic to do some spring cleaning. You know, she's getting rid of some clothes. She's packing up a little bit. What's she packing for? Which university university, which one? Uh, and her mom is not thrilled when she finds this out. Uh, she kind of kept that secret from her mom for as long as possible. Uh, but there's nothing that she can say about it now. She is going to which university? At this point in like, she is packing. Yeah.

[00:08:41] Where did her mom think she was going? One of the others. It is weird that her mom goes from no college to you're leaving right now for college. Like for which university? Did mom think she was taking a gap year? Full scally baby to which university? She said nothing to no one. That's right. Uh, so she heads outside. She hops into the portal, uh, to go to Halloween town and, um, and she asks no questions about the fact that Dylan is coming with her and she asks Dylan to carry her suitcase and he just does.

[00:09:11] He's just, yeah, he's just a good, good brother there. Um, so she shows up and apparently we find out that this is the 1000th year of Halloween town. Well, well, maybe we will go back to a thousand years ago and find out what Halloween town was before. You know what Halloween town a day is a thousand years and a thousand years is a day. Amen brother, you said it. That's right. Uh, so Marnie shows up and she's confused as to why they, the witch school, which university

[00:09:38] has a no magic rule, which fair. It's a fair question to have. You would think that were you using in that sentence? Uh, in that, so which university and then which, which, which, which, which, which, which, which, um, which is, we should make a sandwich shop. Hear me out brand. Yeah. You know how sandwich ends, which sandwich. Right. But what if we short it to which, which? Oh my God. That's fantastic. Is that good?

[00:10:08] It's unbelievable. Uh, let's hear me have a sandwich college called which, which university. That's right. Well, we have which, which, and it's inside a laundromat. Oh, now we're talking. Now we're talking. I can get a sandwich while I do my laundry. That's actually pretty great. Uh, so, uh, Marnie shows up. She's confused about the no, the no magic rule. She makes a friend, beer, cheese fries, and a draft beer with laundry. You haven't kidding me right now. Let's make America great again. I love cheese fries.

[00:10:38] I had cheese fries last night. From where? From where? Oh, we went to bar Margaret. Right. They had a lot of fries. Oh, yeah. Those are good. Where's bar Margaret again? Uh, West Greenville. Yeah, that's right. Anyway. Not in. Yeah, that Greenville. I hope everybody else likes cheese fries too. Uh, so she makes a new friend. Her name is, uh, uh, uh, Anissa. Not in this movie, but I should have showed up with cheese fries. I've just been like, because. Because I watched the movie and then I had cheese fries. Uh, uh, Anissa, who is a genie. Yep.

[00:11:08] And, uh. She wants her family to be accepted to which university? Wow. It's a big deal. And the reason why is because. Broke the genie barrier. That's exactly right. So Ethan, who was from the last one, as you recall. Who they did. Pop into the top. Ethan and Marnie did not have a romantic relationship. No. His dad tried to shut the whole thing down. Yes. Extremely platonic friends where she didn't trust him for half the movie. But don't worry. But now it just like, he's like looking at her. She's looking at him. There he is. Rapunzel bitch. And they see each other. All they can be is like, hey.

[00:11:38] Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Thanks. Hey. We had a青 canceroso diet. You were fuiting over the past then because of Marnie, you know, that's what movies and the uhp ista- And he now are like bringing his mum as me. That's just a cute little� Джší Heranna.

[00:12:08] to non-witches and banned magic to even the playing field. Even the playing field. That's exactly right. That would defeat the whole purpose of witch university in my estimation. But what do I know? They're just teaching gen ed there. Yeah. What you need to know is, is witch university a place for witches to go to hone their magic craft? No. No. It's just a fun name for a college that happens to be in Hollywood. If you wanted to major in like biology, you would go to witch university. You have to do that. And now you can go even if you're not a witch.

[00:12:35] The name is really just of a begotten era at this point. Yes. At that point, if you're not actually training witches to be witches, give me a pun of your name. Anything. A hundred percent. We also meet. Even Halloween Town U. Halloween Town U. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Commonwealth College. Witch university. It's just misleading. That's all we're saying. Yeah. They should have pivoted away from that name when they started. I'm not mad about it 20 years ago. When they started letting. You could be just a normie and go to witch university. Well, they don't say that. They don't ever say that mortals go there. That's true.

[00:13:03] But they allude to the fact that anyone can go. In theory. No magic required. Okay. So they also, we also meet the Sinister Sisters, Scarlet, Sapphire, and Sage. They are the daughters of Silas Sinister, who is in charge of witch university. And they're using. all those names. Yeah. They said it on Wikipedia. Yeah. It's a really good job. They also. I was surprised at you because I was like, I couldn't tell you a single one of those sisters names. And I thought their names were going to matter more. I could have just said the Sinister Sisters. I'm sorry,

[00:13:33] everybody. And also. But I'm really proud of you for like doing the. I did the research. I'm proud of you for that. And for trying yogurt brand. But you need to know those names don't matter. What matters is, is that they're using magic all willy nilly, just flying in the face of all the rules. And having like boys do magic on their behalf, you know, like they're, they're up to no good. I tell you what. Started making trouble in the neighborhood. You said it. So the classes, they're boring to Marnie. Marnie was, I think under the impression she was going to learn about how to do witch stuff.

[00:14:02] It's just boring stuff and whatnot. But in one class, she uncovers that apparently there is a box. And on this box is the name as Cromwell and it is locked and you can't get into it. And it's a whole thing. And apparently no one can get in that box. And all of the professors, the higher ups there, they're like, Marnie is going to be able to do this.

[00:14:31] And so, you know, maybe we can get her to do it for us and she can be on our team. It turns out they're baddies and they need to know that. They have some ulterior motives. And so all Marnie is trying to figure out is who, who is this S? Hey, who's that S? Who's that S? Who's that S? What the S? It's big S Cromwell. That's exactly right. Get a big S. Get a big, a big S drink. Big S Cromwell. That's exactly right. Shout out Spinks.

[00:15:00] So Marnie meets with one of her professors. She's not a baddie. She's Ms. Periwinkle. And she looks and sounds. Professor Periwinkle. I'm sorry. And she looks and sounds. You will not address her as anything except me. I'm sorry. I am sorry. I'm very sorry. I feel like the professors made it very clear in this movie. I'm sorry. She didn't. Sorry. You wouldn't dare. You wouldn't dare call her that. She looks and sounds a whole lot like her grandma. Mm-hmm. Yes.

[00:15:29] Almost like they casted her to replace her grandma. And then they pivoted. No. And almost like they had, yeah, the whole wardrobe even for Debbie Reynolds. And they just were like, you can do this, right? You're Debbie Reynolds. You were in My Fair Lady. It's almost like Debbie Reynolds had a scheduling conflict and couldn't be in this movie. So they wrote a whole character to replace her.

[00:15:50] And then Debbie Reynolds found some wiggle room in her schedule to come be in a few scenes. Do you know if this is before or after Joe Page left the Wiggles? I don't know about Joe, but I do know Greg Page left the Wiggles. Greg Page is a son of a B. Yeah. But Greg Page did leave the Wiggles in this year. Same year. Of our Lord. 22,006. We are 20,000 years in the future, guys. Yeah. It's pretty cool.

[00:16:20] 22,006. And the Wiggles are still thriving. That's what you need to know. I am thriving. That's 202,006 is how you would say that, I believe. It doesn't. 22,000. And yes, we're 200,000 years in the future. Yes. Wow. So, I quit. Travelers. I quit. Professor Perry Winkle tells Marnie what the S stands for. It stands for Splendora. Splendora.

[00:16:49] Apparently, Perry Winkle and Splendora, they were very good friends. And that's all she's going to tell her about that. She's not going to give her any for it. She's not ready for it. Come back to me when you're ready. I made a promise. Come back to me when you're ready. I promised Splendora I would not talk about Splendora. First rule of Splendora. Don't talk about it. I'll bring out or Splendora. And then second, if you don't know what you need to know, I can't help you. That's right. Come back when you know what you need to know. If you don't know, go and know, and then you'll know. Yeah. So, she's not as helpful as you would hope, but she gives her something. So, she...

[00:17:19] The movie would end if she was any more helpful. That's right. So, she realizes, I'm going to have to go to the Cromwell Library. I'm going to have to do all this research. I know who can help me. Cromwell wing of the library. Yes. And I know who can help me. It's Dylan, my brother Dylan. My bro. My brother Dylan. He's been speed reading. He's been speed reading. He comes in there and he's given him... Reads all the stuff. And turns out, apparently, the box contains the gift and it's like a magical power that only... Gift of the capital G.

[00:17:49] That's right. That only the Cromwells can use, which Splendora locked in a box... A thousand years ago. A thousand years ago. What's that about a thousand years? Was that the start of Halloween Town? What? It was. Is it somehow related? Somehow, Marnie's even more part of the Halloween Town lore than we even imagined. And her mom was trying to keep her from it in the first movie. Wow. Don't you... Still kind of trying to keep her from it. She's still not thrilled about it. Hasn't learned a single lesson. She goes back and forth depending on the movie. Depending on the movie. You're right.

[00:18:19] She does. So the people in power, they're baddies. They don't want them to learn about what's inside the box. They basically... They want all the contents of the box for themselves and they're trying to figure out a way to do it. And so they decide the Sinister Sisters are going to... They're going to try to use Dylan to try to get Marnie to help them open up that box. Every time you say Sinister Sisters, my brain just goes, Angelica, Eliza, and Peggy.

[00:18:49] Every time. And I'm like... And Peggy. And Peggy. I think you're talking about... What's their name? Skylar Sisters? Where did I write? Sapphire. Sapphire and Sage. And Sage. It works out well. Yeah. Look out for that parody on our socials. The Sinister Sisters. Lin-Manuel Miranda stole from Return of the Moon. He sure did. He sure did. He knows what he did. He knows what he did. Did he steal from history? No. Okay.

[00:19:17] So with the help of Periwinkle, Marnie's able to travel back to the past to a thousand years ago. She finally is ready to know what she doesn't know. That's right. That's exactly right. And... She needs her grandmother. Yeah. Right. Well, hold on. Right before... Spoiler. Yeah. Spoiler. Right before... You're this far in because you're watching along? Is that what's going on? That's right. You're listening. Okay. All right. Yeah. So things weren't so great. Things weren't so great before the founding of Halloween Town. There were like slaves and stuff.

[00:19:45] And so she goes and she meets Splendora and she learns about the gift. And Splendora explains that the gift is this like necklace that the wearer of it can control anyone. Yes. Which a power that witches have been forbidden to use and the power contempts a good witch to turn bad. It can tempt them. It can tempt them. Can make those good witches go bad. That's exactly right.

[00:20:12] And so she does not think that this should be out in the open. And it turns out Splendora is revealed as Dan mentioned to be Marnie's grandmother. Sorry I spoiled that for all of you guys. Yeah. Aggie. She doesn't like the name Splendora. She's going to drop it eventually. She says once the coordination is over and I'm the queen and I can stop being queen. I'm going to go by my middle name, Agatha. That's right. Just be good old Aggie Cromwell. At which point Marnie starts to cry. That's right.

[00:20:42] Oh my gosh. Your name is Aggie? Yes. You're going to go on to have the best granddaughter. And so, yes. I'm the best. I'm the best. And so. I'm Allie. I'm Allie. And so she gives Marnie the key to the box and is like. What better way to hide it than. Yes. Than put it into the future. I successfully held onto this for a thousand years. I've been responsible. I've maintained its power to give everyone equal opportunity.

[00:21:11] You are responsible. You are capable. I'm in trust. It's I've done it for a thousand years. Well, she hasn't done it for a thousand years. No, no, no. No, she hasn't done it for a thousand years. She's done it for longer than 10 seconds. Well, yes. But she says what better. Basically, what better way to make sure that it stays secure for a thousand years than give it to you and you'll be in the future. And she gets it and holds on to it for. Ever. Mere. Millicent. It is immediately stolen. That is true. And that's unfortunate. Pop, pop.

[00:21:40] She gets back to the future. Those teachers were spying on her dorm room. Yes. So knowing that only. Maybe not above board. Knowing that only a Cromwell can use the gift. The Sinister Sisters transformed Dylan into a dog. Obviously. And their hope here is Marnie is going to come and help and try. You know, she would do anything to make sure that her brother doesn't turn into a dog. That's true. Any spell in effect on Halloween night becomes permanent at midnight. Right.

[00:22:08] So if he is a dog at midnight on Halloween, dog forever. Did we say, and I just tuned out that the only way to destroy the amulet. Is a power of three. Is three Cromwells. Yes. Have to destroy together. The power of three. I have a power of three. It's a power of three. Wish we could get three Cromwells in one room. That'd be tough. I would like that. Debbie Reynolds available? No. Nah. So. We're Sylvia. If Dylan is not turned back by midnight, he's going to stay a dog forever. Like a dog.

[00:22:34] So they agree to return him to his natural form if Marnie basically controls Halloween Town for them. Yes. And gets everybody to be slaves again. So pretty dark stuff here in return to Halloween Town. So Marnie enlists the help of her family and Jeannie. Yes. But Marnie agrees to help them knowing obviously it's a trap.

[00:23:00] And she begins to control people and they are all like, see, she's doing it. Yeah. She very specifically only curses her mom, brother, and Anisha. That's right. Yes. Jeannie Anisha. Yeah. Janisha. And she, Jeannie, uses her lamp to trap it in, which is wonderful. And then she throws the lamp in the air. In the air. And Marnie, Dylan, and Mom destroy the lamp. And they put together together, which is a play that they had worked on. Yes. Done.

[00:23:30] The leaders realizing that they'd ungoofed. They try to leave. But Periwinkle stops them and reveals that she's been an undercover secret agent for all these years. So believable. And she is going to strip them of their magic and arrest them. An agent in the anti-Dominion League. Which I didn't know. I didn't know it was on the table. And I would also just like to point out Periwinkle's track record. She's been on this one case for the last thousand years. Yeah. She's crushing it. She's crushing it. She's on the case. Things have been safe until now. Yeah. So.

[00:24:00] She's just been undercover for a thousand years. Have we had any instances? No. So basically, at the end of it, Marnie finds out that Ethan is now immortal. He gave up his powers after the third movie. And, you know, I guess they're going to be a thing. And then we find out that she did not really destroy the gift at all. Instead, she put it inside of a book. And gave it to Dylan.

[00:24:29] Because Dylan, she can trust Dylan. And didn't tell him that. Let him figure that out on his own. Yep. When he was just doing some leisure reading. I hope that book that she like magicked the amulet inside. I hope that wasn't a book he needed. Well, it's got a glowing ass on the outside. By the fact that we've not had one in 10 years, I feel like it's going well. I feel like he's doing a good job, right? There would be no reason. Yeah, there's no update. Yeah. No news is good news. No news is good news when it comes to Halloween Town. Yeah. We have to assume they're doing okay. And that's Halloween.

[00:24:58] That's Return to Halloween Town. We did it. Everybody. We did it. Let's do this. Let's take a break. We'll come back and we will talk about this movie a little bit more. Share our thoughts on it. See where it lands on our rankings. Mm-hmm. I'm especially interested in where it lands with all the other ones. We'll see. All that on the other side of the break here on Daycom Descendants. What is it? Daycom Descendants. I was going to join in and then got thrown off by day. Of course you were. Yeah. Welcome back, everybody. You were going to join in late. Yeah. Welcome back to Daycom.

[00:25:28] You were going to join in on calm. I was going to be like, I was going to do a bit where I'm late. And then I didn't know where you were going. And I. Daycom Descendants. Sometimes I say Daycom Descendants. My brain tried to be like, should I pick up on what Dan's doing? And then I was like. It's a fun bit where you almost say Daycom Descendants. Welcome back to Daycom. I've been working on it for years. Got it. Got it. Daycom Descendants. I got some Letterboxd reviews if you want. I'd love to hear it. Logan Van Winkle. It's the Declam Descendants. That's right. Delish. Comchat. Letterboxd. Well, this is a part of Overtime. It's a part of Overtime. It's a part of it.

[00:25:58] Declam Descendants. Logan Van Winkle says one star. There's a scene where Dylan is explaining something incredibly important to the plot, but the sound mixing is so bad that you literally can't hear a GD word that he's saying. That's true. That's true. It's very confusing. I don't know why they did it. Sam Dossett says one star. And you all complained about Rise of Skywalker being a terrible end of a franchise. Wow. People are angry at this movie. Lucifer's Left Nut says four stars.

[00:26:28] Jesse McCartney's song being played while flying on a broom made this go from a two star to a four star masterpiece. I got to be honest. First of all, great review. Second of all, I need to know what Lucifer's Right Nut thinks. Well, yeah, I think we all do. But you don't tell the left what the right nut's doing. No, no. Leighton Trent says a star and a half. There's bad. And then there's Lester Pace, our lead actress from the previous three films in the fourth installment of our Disney Channel original movie series. Bad. Leighton didn't like it.

[00:26:55] Marissa says a star and a half. This literally could have been the best one if they didn't recast Marnie. And if Grandma Aggie was in it for more than 30 seconds, the lack of Debbie Reynolds and the present of an imposter is truly killer of Halloween spirits. I get the feeling that is the pervasive thought of most everyone that loves the original. Grace says two stars. This Marnie has the worst Rory Gilmore energy like which you as her Yale. You nailed that, Grace.

[00:27:25] One hundred percent. Yes. And then Kylie says two stars. What we deserved was a movie about Sophie's time in Halloween Town learning her magic, not whatever this was. We said that. We agree. So what are our thoughts on it? Do we align with many of the Letterboxd users or are we more on Lucifer's left nuts side of things where Jesse McCartney can heal all wounds? All wounds. I'll start with you, Aaron. What'd you think? As the biggest of the Halloween Town fans. Right.

[00:27:55] You're the only one that still has this in their top 10. Do you have this in the top 10? Halloween Town? Halloween Town is 10. Yeah. OG. OG. All right. What'd you think about this one? I am a bit on the side of most of these Letterboxd reviews. This is- Oh, Halloween Town's 10 for me too. Sorry. Go ahead. This is a tough movie to rank because- Is it a tough nut to crack? No. A rough nut to crack? It's a right nut actually. Oh, wow. Wow. If Kimberly J.

[00:28:22] Brown was Marnie, this would be probably my second favorite Halloween Town. Actually, I don't know if that's true. It's so hard. I feel like if they had the similar writers or the same writers and Kimberly J. Brown, this would probably be my second favorite after the first one. What's tough here is that you have characters. It almost feels like this wasn't meant to be the final one.

[00:28:52] Like the characters have gone back on a lot of their character growth. Sarah Paxton, I assume, never watched a Halloween Town movie, which is weird knowing how old she was in 2006. Because she just doesn't continue the Marnie that I knew and loved. I mean, there may be some varying opinions on that. But I mean, the opening shot is Marnie sitting in her bed, going through all of her clothes, deciding, you know, what's still cool for her to wear. Or painting her nails.

[00:29:22] It was just this like, whereas Kimberly J. Brown as Marnie was really just like, I like what I like. Halloween is cool. I know that I'm weird. I roll with it. And so it was just weird to see like this kind of, it just felt right from the get go that this was a different type of Marnie. Her relationship with her brother is different. Like, I don't know. Maybe it's different if you don't see them for a year. But as we've just watched the other three recently, it just felt off to me. Plot wise, I think it's fine.

[00:29:52] I think we do need more grandma. I'm sad that Aggie is not in this more that we get bargain Aggie with Periwinkle. I think once Aggie did join the cast, we could have changed Periwinkle's character a little bit to make it more of, you know, a step away from being an Aggie replacement. But I mean, I like it. And I think there are parts of it that makes sense in the Halloween Town world. But it is hard for me to fully enjoy it because like almost just give me a witch university movie and don't tell me it's Halloween Town.

[00:30:23] But because you tried to put it in this world that I've already watched three movies, grown to know and love those characters. And you just kind of tilted it a little bit. Like, I don't know. It just doesn't sit well with me. Yeah, I'm with you, Aaron. It's a weird one because I like this is a strong Halloween Town universe movie. It's just she's just not Marnie. You can't do that to people. We've become attached and you can't do that.

[00:30:51] But so it's tough because this if if if if Kimmy J was in this, this might be my favorite Halloween Town movie. But without Kimmy J, I'm left confused about what to do with this. I think the movie as a whole works better if it just takes place inside the universe. And it's not she's not she's not Marnie. And because I like I think Sarah Paxton's great. I think I think she's really fun, but she's not Marnie.

[00:31:21] And that's it's that's not nothing. You can't. I think they grossly underestimated how attached we were to Sarah to Kimberly J. Brown as as Marnie. She's our Marnie. They certainly you grossly underestimated people that watched it when they were teenagers. I mean, like they like who do you think you're fooling? Yeah, people seven seven point five million people watch this movie. They're not going to know that Kimberly J. Brown isn't Marnie in the movie like they're going to be pissed.

[00:31:49] So this is tough because I did really enjoy this movie and I have a feeling I'm going to this is going to be one of those ones that ends up moving up on my list. I think the further away that I get from it. But today I'm a little bit bent out of shape about it and I don't really know what to do about that. So that's where I'm at. Dan, I'm not trying to echo the sound of anyone's echo here, but the reality of this movie is, is that it it is a fitting sequel to Halloween Town. I don't think it's better than the first one. Robin Thomas twist actually the villain. A lot of practical effects.

[00:32:19] That movie is kind of an old timer. This movie is far and away the second best plot of any Halloween Town movie far and away. In my opinion, I'm probably still going to have it second because of how much better it is than the other two plots. But if you grew up watching Halloween Town with Kimberly J. Brown and Debbie Reynolds and you got this and were told it was Halloween Town, I can imagine you'd be pretty upset. That was not me. Sarah Paxton is lovely. She's wonderful.

[00:32:49] She's better than 90% of DCOM leads. Yes. She's not better than Kimberly J. Brown. And that's the tough part. She's not. I don't care that they have, I don't care that they replaced an actor. They replaced the actor with someone not as good. The movie though, it is a worthy sequel, a better sequel than return or Calabar's Revenge or Halloween Town High.

[00:33:14] So props to a movie that should never have been made with a cast that should never have been in it. Still making better use of the Halloween Town premise, in my opinion, than Calabar's Revenge or Halloween Town High. But make no mistake, those two movies are awful. This movie has a cast that doesn't fit. So none of them are going to be very high on my list because they all have a fatal flaw to them.

[00:33:41] The fatal flaw of this movie is you took the soul out of the movie. I like Debbie Reynolds and, and, and Kimberly J. Brown are the soul of this, of this franchise. And you took them out. I'm not offended on a personal level. Like I think a lot of the reviews were like, I think Aaron and brand or like any word that was, that were, were teenagers that I'm not like, whatever, do what you got to do. These movies are cheap and they're making a lot of money. I, I don't, I think it hurts what the movie is supposed to be. So yeah, it's my second favorite.

[00:34:11] It's my second favorite of the Halloween Town movies, but it's not good. I will say like having access to internet and having like now with Instagrams and stuff like that, where stars can have their own platform. Right. I think a lot of the like rumors back in 2006 was that Kimberly had passed on this movie. Well, that's even what it, what it says on, uh, on Wikipedia still to this day is a quote

[00:34:34] from producer Sherry Singer who says, uh, uh, recasting of Marnie was not something that we wanted to do. We could not come to terms that we felt were fair. We just weren't able to, we couldn't make the deal work. That's why Kimberly J. Brown was recast. We did not want to do it. And Kimberly maintains that she wasn't contacted. Yeah.

[00:34:57] I tend to, uh, probably, I would probably side with the actor in this case, uh, compared to the big, because we don't know who he's talking about making a deal with, but also the big bad Disney didn't, they weren't firm on it. They didn't go. We reached out to Kimberly J. Brown on these dates. If they would have the proof, they would have the proof that they had reached out and said something. They said it was tough to recast. That is not a lie.

[00:35:23] What they said there was, we decided to recast and it was tough to do because she's so I got it. Well, they say we couldn't make the deal work. What does that mean? In their head, they had a budget so they didn't reach out because they knew that they, the way they saved money was to recast it. So like they're just, they're speaking to Hollywood ease there. That's what they're doing. It is nice having that. Um, and the other thing I was thinking about as you guys are both giving your, here's some more information.

[00:35:49] In 2024, Singer further explained that Brown and her team came to contract negotiations with a list of unusual perks. She further explained, quote, she wanted a rich deal. It wasn't astronomical, but I think she wanted her mother to get a shot at writing the story or getting a producer credit had limits on what publicity she could do, wouldn't do and what she wanted to get paid. There were some things that at the time felt overreaching and she didn't budge. I gotta be honest.

[00:36:19] That is a little bit more damning. I mean, I, I don't think it's, there's enough there, but clearly Kimberly J. Brown has not come out to be like, that's a lie. I'm suing you for libel. I mean, I don't know. I'd have to go back and look. It's juicy though. And actually like watch the interview. That's juicy. I still wonder if maybe before they had a, cause this is, this sounds like before a script was written. But that's, that's a claim that is very much documentable. Like you, that's a claim that says we have documentation to prove this. If you want to go that way.

[00:36:49] Yeah. Nope. I'm on the side of Kimberly J. Brown. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I'd have to read more at that point. It's now a little more wishy washy. I'm more wishy. Oh, he's more wishy. I know, right? You're more washy. I'll do a deep dive this afternoon when you guys are moving on to your next recording. Okay. Fair enough. I love it. And by recording, I mean movie. Let's get to our rankings of where we're going to put this one. And also if anything has changed in our top tens, assuming that this one doesn't make it into our top tens, um, Aaron. Yeah.

[00:37:17] So this movie is going to be further down on my list as of right now, because I am taking the replacement of Kimberly J. Brown so incredibly personally. It's personal to me. And I think there are times in series where, yeah, contracts fall through, scheduling doesn't work and you have to replace a character. It would have been nice if Sarah had tried to mimic her Marnie, at least personality wise along the lines of Kimberly J. Brown.

[00:37:45] Um, the fact that she never even opens up the handbook to find out she can't do magic on campus. Like Marnie would be all over that. Marnie lives for Halloween town lore. Like she, I feel like if she didn't know that Splendora was Agatha, like I feel like she would have at least known there was a Splendora in her family tree. There's just a lot of like, I don't know, Sarah Paxson's portrayal of Marnie just felt like, Oh, I don't know.

[00:38:13] Like, I don't, I don't know what's going on with this. I didn't know how, which university was built on my family's castle. Like all this stuff where she was just like, this is news to me. Oh, well. And it just, like, it's just hard for me to then be like, well, yes, I think the plot is a really good plot and I would rank it higher, but how they portray the plot to me. Um, I don't love it. But so it is going to, to debut as the lowest Halloween town on my list. Wow. Yeah.

[00:38:42] Wow. I also can't get behind the her and Ethan romance plot line. Like that just, you just wanted Lucas to come back cause he was a bigger Disney star at this point. Um, Halloween, um, high school musical is out. High school musical two is coming out in a year. Like he has some star power. What are we talking here? Like when you say it's the, it's, Oh, you said it's the fourth over my bed. I'm sorry. I, I, it's the, it's the lowest of the four.

[00:39:09] Um, so it's coming in just behind gotta kick it up right now at 34 for me. Um, and sounds like something's about to fall. We're fine. We're fine. She, um, I mean, it's worth the ticket. The man's worth the ticket. They weren't the ticket. Who knew? Who knew it? Who knew it wouldn't be? Who knew it wouldn't be? Who knew it wouldn't be? Who knew it wouldn't be? Commandsters.

[00:39:39] Um, your lowest Halloween town's 34. Yeah. Um, yep. So 34, I have Halloween town high at 31 Halloween town two at 25 and then Halloween town, the original at 10. So that's where I have them right now. I may, as we get a little further from it and the sharp pain of no Kimberly J Brown fades a little bit. I can reassess the plot.

[00:40:05] Um, but right now it's, it's just, you wanted to make another one and you didn't quite hit the mark as yeah. So my top 10 has not changed. 10 Halloween town, nine, get a clue. Eight Eddie's million dollar cook off seven phantom of the megaplex six smart house five, Johnny tsunami four, right on track three, right on track. Right on track three, Cadet Kelly to high school musical and number one motocross.

[00:40:34] Uh, I am a notoriously lower on Halloween town than most and everybody here on this here podcast. Aside from the original, I think I'm lower on the rest of them than you, but I'm fascinated to see. So I have the regular Halloween, the original Halloween town at 29. Yeah. That's crazy town. So I'm not high on it. I've never been super high on it. Uh, I do have a turn to Halloween town lower than that. I have a feeling it's going to jump above it and later the original. Yeah.

[00:41:05] I think it's a better, I think it's a better movie. That's crazy. Um, I currently also have it at 34, which is a quinky dink. Um, I have alley cat strike at 33 and I have true confessions at 35. So it's right between those, uh, flicks. Uh, my top 10 is also not changed. Where are the other Halloween towns? Um, Calabar's revenge and Halloween high Halloween, uh, Calabar's revenge is 43. And, uh, where is Halloween town? High. It's not even on there.

[00:41:34] No, it's gotta be on there somewhere. Um, I'll get, I'll get back. Oh, oh, I'm sorry. 55. Okay. Um, uh, my top 10 hasn't changed. My top 10 hasn't changed. Phantom at 10, a full court miracle at nine, a smart house at eight. Eddie's at seven. His, uh, cook off, uh, cadet Kelly at six, get a clue at five. High school musical for motocross at three. Johnny tsunami at number two and the greatest movie of all time. Uh, Brink at number one.

[00:41:59] So I, aside from Halloween town one, which I just think is an, a really solid decom and I have at 10, I'm lower on the rest of these than you. Okay. Um, I have returned to Halloween town premiering at 46, 46, and it is still the highest of the other ones. Way home. I have Calabar's revenge at 47 and I have Halloween town, a Halloween high at 51. Wow. So all three of those movies don't crack the top 45.

[00:42:30] Um, my top 10 has not changed. 10 Halloween town, nine full court miracle, eight scream team, seven get a clue, six Eddie's million dollar cook off five phantom of the megaplex for mom's got a date with a vampire. Three, Johnny tsunami to cadet Kelly and number one, not going anywhere. Motocross. We did it. Everybody. Congratulations to us. We are taking the week off next week. Memorial day. Take the week off. And we'll be back the first week of June with jump and it's going to be a lot of fun.

[00:42:58] Uh, the return Dan of Corbin blue, uh, high school musical, high school musical. Kiki Palmer and Kiki Palmer. Love Kiki Palmer. Not the return of Kiki Palmer, but this is a introduction of Kiki Palmer. This is a big movie. I'm very excited to, uh, to watch it with you. It's going to be a lot of fun. So come on back for that. Um, until then. Decom. Decom it all day. Decom Descendants is a Bramble Jam podcast produced by Brandon Gray and the Bramble Jam Podcast Network Studios. And yeah, that Greenville, South Carolina.

[00:43:28] For more information on Decom Descendants, follow us on the web. Decom, Decom Podcast dot com. Follow us on the socials at Decom Descendants to watch us watch these movies live. Bramble Jam plus dot com or take the tape dot com. It was a review. You're about to hear some ads that help keep the lights on here in the old studio.

[00:43:56] Thanks for listening or don't listen. It's really up to you at this point. It's at the end of the show. I mean, you're listening to me. Hi, but here they come. I promise they're coming. Yep. Here they are. Happy day. Bye.